"Milky" (jordanmielke)
12/29/2014 at 12:38 • Filed to: Braaap, Much boost, Honda, JDM, Motor Trend, FF
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"Milky" (jordanmielke)
12/29/2014 at 12:38 • Filed to: Braaap, Much boost, Honda, JDM, Motor Trend, FF | 3
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Motor Trend FF Honda battle featuring: claims that cannot be backed up.
Car makes 500 hp, but for this we're running a waste gate so its only 300+ hp.
car dynos at 336hp
still blows engine in first track session
So makes 500hp huh?
GhostZ
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 12:44 |
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Truth be told, if it's designed for 500 HP 1/4 mile pulls, it makes total sense that it could blow up at 336HP on a track where it's wailed on for more than 10 seconds at a time. A 300HP motor running hot for a long time is much more likely to blow than a 500HP engine running hot for a few seconds.
What pisses me off is that they "blew the motor". Not that they bent a valve, had engine knock, burst a gasket, or ANYTHING descriptive, the engine just "blew". That is indicative of someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
This isn't a bad thing about tuners, this is just a bad thing about dickheads anyway.
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Milky
> GhostZ
12/29/2014 at 12:51 |
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For the sake of argument though, when Dodge unveiled the Hellcat twins they said to everybody you can run it for 20 minutes on a track at 100 degrees without losing power & it comes with a warranty.
This thing dynos once at whatever 500-adjusted-for-drivetrain-loss is, but still blows in the first session when they run it longer than 10 seconds at low boost .
Thats not a 500hp motor imho.
djmt1
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 12:52 |
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So out of the dozen or so cars there it takes one irresponsible owner to colour your view of an entire sub section of the motoring community?
Also they are called "Tuners". I don't think it is beyond belief that they can change the output of their engines, because of course a 500 HP FF with minimal aero is a brilliant idea for time attacks.
jariten1781
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 12:56 |
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All of the shots are of guys going off. Whose idea was that?
Also, only the guy's with the red Civic that popped seemed like extreme poseurs. All the other participants came across ok (except for the sticker overload).
And I can't take UTI seriously because they're named after painful urination.
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Milky
> djmt1
12/29/2014 at 13:00 |
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Well no, from my understanding some companies go through a lot of trouble making OEM quality parts like ABT and Renntech. But making a large claim and then having your car pretty much show the exact opposite is very off-putting.
But what is the difference between "tuners" and "Tuners"?
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Milky
> jariten1781
12/29/2014 at 13:06 |
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Lol, I didn't even think of that …. there were a lot of shots like that.
Also I can't take the UTI guy seriously when he mentions using the exhaust heat for the turbo like its a good thing @6:20. WAT.
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djmt1
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 13:07 |
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Punctuation and Auto-correct.
I agree it was a weird thing to say in the circumstances but the engine probably could put out 500 HP but why would it need to is my question. From the look of his shop he doesn't do drags and for time attack as shown by the top 3 cars, power isn't that important. You would thing he would be plugging himself but saying the engine was on its way out, but we didn't expect to go this quickly doesn't inspire confidence.
Either way it was a shit video, I'm interested in the cars not some third rate shop who sends their customers broken engines.
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GhostZ
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 13:15 |
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You'd need 25lbs of pressure at the cylinder to make a K24 (@7000RPM) reach 500HP, so probably ~35lbs of boost at the wastegate.
The Hellcat, being a 6.2l engine, only makes 11.6 lbs of boost @6000 rpm (probably an effective ~9lbs of boost at the cylinder) to reach its 707HP.
With the same RPM and boost characteristics of the Hellcat, the K24 should only make ~250-275HP, and it's components are obviously older and not as expensive or well-engineered as the Hellcat's.
If you want to make a comparison, this would be like Dodge releasing a hellcat engine that made 1400HP @ 7000 RPM and 35lbs of boost. Put that on the street and of course it's going to blow up after a short time unless you're spending hundreds of thousands (which neither the tuner nor Dodge can) for a lot of custom one-off parts to hold it barely together.
That isn't a 500HP engine, but the Hellcat isn't a 1400HP engine either. Compare apples to apples.
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Milky
> GhostZ
12/29/2014 at 13:43 |
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Uggh making me google shit.
APR TT-RS Stage III: 2.5L - 665hp
… and after watching the Drive video again, they have test cars in the U.S., Africa and Europe. So I don't hate all tuners, just ones that make big claims and then blow their engine.
(video is a year or so old, the kit is now for sale on their site, for $13k)
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Milky
> djmt1
12/29/2014 at 13:46 |
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Good point, the car that blew up got a lot of camera time, while others got none.
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GhostZ
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 13:46 |
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There's also a lesson to be learned about increasing boost on an engine that is already turbo'd, VS trying to build your own turbo on an engine that isn't designed for it.
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Milky
> GhostZ
12/29/2014 at 13:53 |
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Or you know, don't make "claims that cannot be backed up."
Also like djmt1 said - "You would thing he would be plugging himself but saying the engine was on its way out, but we didn't expect to go this quickly doesn't inspire confidence."
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jariten1781
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 14:04 |
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Well, he's technically correct there (whether he knows why or not). A turbo recovers waste heat that's a byproduct of running non-ideal 4 stroke engines. It manifests as kinetic energy of the exhaust gasses. Most people don't think of it that way outside of a thermodynamics lecture hall, but it really is heat recovery that a turbo performs.
There's a good primer in chapter 5 here: http://www.academia.edu/3407176/Turboc…
promoted by the color red
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 14:10 |
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The Civic guy might be talking about crank HP. 336 with 15% loss translates into about 400.
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Milky
> promoted by the color red
12/29/2014 at 14:38 |
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But it still blew up making considerably less then the claimed 500.
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Milky
> jariten1781
12/29/2014 at 14:40 |
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I'll see myself out.
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promoted by the color red
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 15:21 |
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Yeah, that part was dumb. I bet one of the offs knocked something loose and they kept going 10/10ths because #MAXIMUMATTACK or some other dumb hash-tagged slogan.
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Milky
> promoted by the color red
12/29/2014 at 15:31 |
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Found it!
From a different car in that guys shop.
Kanaric
> Milky
12/29/2014 at 15:54 |
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yeah horsepower wars dick measuring contest.
I guess I am a "tuner" in that I like building up turbo cars but i'm not like these people. These people chase horsepower dyno numbers. I buy parts and see what kind of power I can make with it and have it be usable. Anything i've build could run pretty much like stock or better.
Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
> Milky
12/30/2014 at 11:36 |
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Good god, did any of them not go off track at some point?
Zane Kaminski
> Milky
01/01/2015 at 17:33 |
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Nothing new here. I'll be impressed when someone installs an integrated motor assist flywheel and runs an electric supercharger. Not one of those dumb things you hook up to your car and it doesn't do anything. A real electric supercharger. I'm not aware of anything of the sort existing today, at least that you can buy and slap on your Civic or whatever. Volvo has a new engine that uses some electric compressor fans to spin up the turbos fast, which is cool and all. Nothing where the actual boost pressure is comes from a battery+generator and is regulated completely electronically, rather than with exhaust moving through a wastegate+turbine or with a mechanical supercharger.